tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post1515400976061745814..comments2023-10-30T08:00:54.059-04:00Comments on Laurel's Leaves: Poet secretsLaurel Garverhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-28551377001032767732010-04-25T21:25:21.642-04:002010-04-25T21:25:21.642-04:00Jenna: The results are often best when the sound p...Jenna: The results are often best when the sound patterns emerge organically, as part of your voice.<br /><br />Nicole: Aha! I do that too. My first drafts are usually just nailing down the basics of story. It's in revision that the more musical elements seem to flower. <br /><br />Mary: Thanks so much. Musical writing can be lovely, provided it isn't overdone.<br /><br />Lola: Yeah, I agree about having a light hand with repeated initial sounds. I prefer assonance--it's more subtle and less likely to grate. Rhyme can be effective in fiction, too, but I go really, really light with it, because it's more noticeable and prone to irritate than even alliteration.<br /><br />Rosslyn: I admire most poets like Byron who were able to use meter without torturing natural syntax. <br /><br />Practicing "old school" poetic forms is just like learning scales on piano, making you a more proficient artist. Great point.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-21696916474343141392010-04-25T00:28:13.068-04:002010-04-25T00:28:13.068-04:00I love some forms of poetry. Good topic!
I do hav...I love some forms of poetry. Good topic!<br /><br />I do have to stick up for the value of old-fashioned meter. Writing in meter will teach an aspiring writer much about the rhythm of language that cannot be taught analytically.Rosslyn Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11304732306399786236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-32334813112281042192010-04-23T16:36:11.330-04:002010-04-23T16:36:11.330-04:00Another terrific post/topic, Laurel.
I too am ena...Another terrific post/topic, Laurel.<br /><br />I too am enamored with using sound devices in my prose. It's a delicate balance, and I try to err on the side of caution. <br />Unlike Simon, I do not enjoy the use of frequent alliteration. It quickly gets on my nerves. <br /><br />Have a delightful weekend,<br />LolaLola Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14394765053485642935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-50287028631140585502010-04-23T15:34:46.170-04:002010-04-23T15:34:46.170-04:00I think sound devices in writing are great. They ...I think sound devices in writing are great. They enhance the story. Your examples are terrific, terrific, terrific!Mary Aalgaardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051735579638637382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-72429882343817701772010-04-23T13:07:02.413-04:002010-04-23T13:07:02.413-04:00I LOVE incorporating sound devices into my writing...I LOVE incorporating sound devices into my writing. I think that's the reason I like the revision phase so much, because I'm working on the sound as much as the message of a scene. And, I have to say, the more I write, the more I turn naturally to poetic devices in the first draft.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01899768909313326172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-11810933306070581362010-04-23T10:40:47.004-04:002010-04-23T10:40:47.004-04:00Beautiful, Laurel, as usual. I've never though...Beautiful, Laurel, as usual. I've never thought about the assonance of my writing, but it does seem to evolve on its own, at least with my current MC. Thanks for another great post!Jenna Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07591399291903261245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-64086424154519400692010-04-23T10:03:26.330-04:002010-04-23T10:03:26.330-04:00Amber: Nothing wrong with overwriting in the early...Amber: Nothing wrong with overwriting in the early drafts, then paring back. I'll have to write a post about that, too!<br /><br />There's a whole field of poetics that goes into the minutae of sounds and their meanings. Might make for an interesting research if you don't think it will make your brain explode. <br />And thanks for the props about my "teaching". It's fun to make my weird quirks useful to someone.<br /><br />Crystal: Aw, thanks. I'm glad you found it interesting. Ah, chapter 11. One new scene done, and I have a map for the rest. I'm slogging through a narrative summary scene (to move the story faster). I HATE writing those, they feel rushed, though that's kind of the point--to ramp up the pacing. So it's gonna be a day way outside my comfort zone. Sigh. Thanks for holding me accountable. :-)<br /><br />Glam: It's what makes your writing so lush! I think poetry writing comes more naturally to me, but I love a good story too, so this is my compromise. :-)Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-7320894980514023592010-04-23T09:38:40.104-04:002010-04-23T09:38:40.104-04:00Bish: Sound is the writer's playground. :-)
J...Bish: Sound is the writer's playground. :-)<br /><br />JEM: here are a few links for ya:<br />David Citino sample:<br />http://www.cortlandreview.com/issue/7/citino7.htm<br /><br />Denise Levertov online collection:<br />http://www.poemhunter.com/denise-levertov/poems/page-2/<br /><br />Scott Cairns online collection:<br />http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poet.html?id=1011Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-18921160453663361302010-04-22T23:44:21.973-04:002010-04-22T23:44:21.973-04:00This is a great, great post. I studied poetry in g...This is a great, great post. I studied poetry in great depth in college, and I love to use it in my prose. I recently published a prose poem over on the Rose & Thorn journal. Using sounds and rhythm is something I can't get enough of. :)Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-19718111602549640702010-04-22T23:36:28.013-04:002010-04-22T23:36:28.013-04:00This is so cool, not hopelessly nerdy at all. I ne...This is so cool, not hopelessly nerdy at all. I never thought of doing that before. I feel like I say that with everything you post, maybe I just need tothink more! I loved everything you said here.<br /><br />And Laurel, how's your chapter 11 coming? ;)Crystal Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06665844725894074136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-38657990043961795602010-04-22T19:55:30.238-04:002010-04-22T19:55:30.238-04:00There's nothing I adore more than writing poet...There's nothing I adore more than writing poetic prose. Often, I'm told I tend to overwrite, which makes me sadspice.<br /><br />I think it works well in lit fic. I think it can be overdone, but is the mark of a careful and beautiful writer.<br /><br />This post was full of awesome. I love the way you explained which sounds evoke which emotions. I love the way you teach. You are so good at explaining things, Laurel! (I know, I sound twelve. Whatever.)Leigh Hutchens Burchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13974935740527936303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-15854445423989395602010-04-22T18:51:11.026-04:002010-04-22T18:51:11.026-04:00Hmmm, I'm still skeptical but I'm up for t...Hmmm, I'm still skeptical but I'm up for the challenge. Is there anywhere online I can check these bad boys out?JEMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04043891292719086478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-23151633202389474802010-04-22T16:45:25.900-04:002010-04-22T16:45:25.900-04:00Oh the wonderful world of words!I love playing ar...Oh the wonderful world of words!I love playing around with thier sounds.Bish Denhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13359927719391990534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-87949834265764042592010-04-22T16:31:39.771-04:002010-04-22T16:31:39.771-04:00Southpaw; it's like hearing a distant song, is...Southpaw; it's like hearing a distant song, isn't it, when you find poetic lines in prose? Glad to hear you like doing it too.<br /><br />JEM: I need to get you turned on to contemporary poems, which usually read deceptively like prose, except they're rife with these sound techniques. Way more gripping than the tortured rhyme schemes of yesteryear. Denise Levertov, Scott Cairns, David Citino are some of my faves.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-56933907619115394402010-04-22T16:27:47.328-04:002010-04-22T16:27:47.328-04:00Simon: you've got some assonance going there, ...Simon: you've got some assonance going there, as well: the "A" in lay awake and the short "i" in listening, ticking and timber. <br /><br />Another trick to try (since I know you love those) is progressive consonance--picking up a sound from one word and carrying it forward. Like in my example "Snippets of my life appear between arty shots of hydrant rainbows and sullen subway riders. Wide-eyed child watches a huge Snoopy balloon soar past in the Macy’s parade." Subway is a carrying word that plays off the repeated W of rainbows, wide and watches as well as the S in sullen, riders, watches, Snoopy, soar and Macy's. <br /><br />Ok, I must be certifiably nuts that I notice this stuff. LOL.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-51392297383251859572010-04-22T16:10:19.493-04:002010-04-22T16:10:19.493-04:00Lynn: glad to know I'm not alone in my addicti...Lynn: glad to know I'm not alone in my addiction! Yeah, I do at times have to chop away a sound experiment gone wrong, but as you say, I have to go with the flow during draft stage and let the word music in my head get out. <br /><br />Plath is awesome at assonance, Ginsberg at really explosive sound combinations. Joyce is just jaw dropping in his use of sound, to a degree that Finnegans Wake is almost unreadable. You've been warned. :-)<br /><br />Tess: Your comment reminds me a little of the "heart song" concept in Happy Feet. :-) That each has a tune he or she brings to the world that is unique. Rhythm is another way to "sing" as is a whirling plot or dancing dialogue.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-75436210310791508132010-04-22T15:57:08.306-04:002010-04-22T15:57:08.306-04:00Janet: Thanks. I recommend looking at contemporary...Janet: Thanks. I recommend looking at contemporary poems, because they use these more subtle sound devices more than the old rhymey stuff. You may find you like poetry more than you expected.<br /><br />Karen: I like that image of creating refuge very much. Musical prose can transport readers that way.<br /><br />Tricia: I agree that overdoing it will jar and detract from the story. It's one of the reasons I like assonance a lot--it's extremely subtle, while alliterative consonants are more obvious (and grating when overdone).<br /><br />Talli: Fun is key, I think. If incorporating sound patterns feels like a chore, readers will feel it. All I can advise is play and see if it feels natural to your style.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-29881644787487088792010-04-22T13:23:52.076-04:002010-04-22T13:23:52.076-04:00This a great post! I honestly can't stand poet...This a great post! I honestly can't stand poetry, but there is so much poetry in writing and song and I love both. I love the idea of applying poetry mechanics to a paragraph in a story. Thanks, Laurel!JEMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04043891292719086478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-74464737209169372852010-04-22T12:42:27.695-04:002010-04-22T12:42:27.695-04:00I love poetry and think it is wonderful when it...I love poetry and think it is wonderful when it's hidden in books. I hope to include it in mine too.Southpawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539290964546504171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-61300564646943573942010-04-22T11:28:58.243-04:002010-04-22T11:28:58.243-04:00I do it almost unconsciously, now, you know. I'...I do it almost unconsciously, now, you know. I'm a sucker for alliteration, so I'll almost always pair nouns and adjectives/adverbs that start with the same letter.<br /><br />Example from current short story: "I lay awake listening to the ticking of old timbers cooling and the soft scratching of mice behind the walls."<br /><br />lay...listening, ticking...timbers, soft scratching (and then mice and walls, for the consonance). I just like the way it sounds, is all.<br /><br />My CPs usually tell me if it's too much. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-31108882509605276672010-04-22T10:57:17.006-04:002010-04-22T10:57:17.006-04:00I think so much of our writing comes from what sou...I think so much of our writing comes from what sounds natural and good to us in our minds. That is why our literary voices differ so much. this is impressive, but it would take me two hours to craft a paragraph like you show here. the fact it comes to you so easily is a gift.Tesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10014195715998913268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-58913851041330415422010-04-22T10:41:23.835-04:002010-04-22T10:41:23.835-04:00I so get you Laurel. I do like sound devices. I&#...I so get you Laurel. I do like sound devices. I've read great writing and the devices were an element that helped make it great. Naturally in my own writing, they do appear and I can have a lot of fun. Yes, I do have to weed them out later, but I still learn as I let them flow during the creative process, finding new ways to express. <br /> <br />Thanks for the recommended readings on the topic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-90599030601697359362010-04-22T10:39:06.843-04:002010-04-22T10:39:06.843-04:00Interesting, I've never thought about sounds i...Interesting, I've never thought about sounds in my writing but I do think a lot about rhythm. I might give this a go - but then again, it does look quite time-consuming. <br /><br />Thanks, though!Talli Rolandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780882465745107715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-17963981289315009522010-04-22T10:30:19.390-04:002010-04-22T10:30:19.390-04:00I don't set out to write lyrically but I often...I don't set out to write lyrically but I often do. I think it's the way I express words on page, but I don't want anyone to be brought up short by it. That's the question to ask, I guess, does the poetic nature flow with the story and not take the reader out of story. Because in fiction writing the story is the point. Actually, in poetry the best of it also has a point and is not just well-crafted language. Thanks again, Laurel, for a post that makes me think about craft. You are so good that!Tricia J. O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-90581856879629563562010-04-22T09:53:09.258-04:002010-04-22T09:53:09.258-04:00I think that this is an example of what makes us w...I think that this is an example of what makes us writers tick, work, and express ourselves. I am not a giant poetry buff but I do appreciate the essence of it; to me it is often musical and can contribute a lot to how I write. I think it also offers a place of rest from all the sharp edges and challenges we face in life. Make sense? If not, I can claim to be an eccentric writer:)Karen Langehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18177923284595298347noreply@blogger.com