tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post3867326479105329770..comments2023-10-30T08:00:54.059-04:00Comments on Laurel's Leaves: How many eyes?Laurel Garverhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-43863502201340217772011-10-22T11:39:17.508-04:002011-10-22T11:39:17.508-04:00oh, man. I'm a total feedback junkie. I'm ...oh, man. I'm a total feedback junkie. I'm like the worst ever. Poor hubs. Whenever I write somethin I really like, I'm all "Read this! Read this!" And he's like, "Just keep writing. THEN I'll read it." He's so right. I try to plow through first, then let him and some other betas read and give feedback, revise some more, then see what happens~ :o) <3 good luck!LTMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05239077455322030275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-61718105875909923512011-10-21T10:47:58.250-04:002011-10-21T10:47:58.250-04:00Valerie: sounds like a logical way to approach fee...Valerie: sounds like a logical way to approach feedback. I especially liked what you said about the stifling effect of showing still-forming ideas to others. Well said.<br /><br />Nisa: It definitely takes experience to realize some readers won't get what you're doing thematically or resonate with your writing, so some opinions won't be helpful and you have to lay them aside.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-90788148144202876732011-10-21T10:43:48.990-04:002011-10-21T10:43:48.990-04:00Nicole: It can be so hard to keep the door closed ...Nicole: It can be so hard to keep the door closed with the first draft--and feedback has a way of boxing in where the book might go. I hope you're able to stay strong with book 2 and wait to share pages.<br /><br />Lynn: I think it takes time to be content writing for yourself first, and to keep plugging even when you're not sure if a piece is good yet.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-1629678743439768752011-10-21T10:39:22.542-04:002011-10-21T10:39:22.542-04:00Lola: I think the ability to wait for feedback com...Lola: I think the ability to wait for feedback comes with experience, don't you?<br /><br />Lydia: I've used far, far more people at every stage, partly because I could.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-71590606949272154382011-10-21T10:35:10.910-04:002011-10-21T10:35:10.910-04:00Carol: Too much feedback can muddy the waters for ...Carol: Too much feedback can muddy the waters for sure. With one of my projects, it's (muddy)water under the bridge at this point.<br /><br />Stina: I like the waves of readers method, too. Fresh eyes can be so helpful.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-6925269089794371572011-10-20T12:03:16.697-04:002011-10-20T12:03:16.697-04:00I talked about crits today on my blog, too. I thin...I talked about crits today on my blog, too. I think I definitely fed on the praise for awhile. It's hard to learn that sometimes it's okay to say no, that what you want could actually be what's best for your book.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08616276555920544920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-32888664381886735112011-10-20T10:45:11.781-04:002011-10-20T10:45:11.781-04:00I've come to discover that for me it works bes...I've come to discover that for me it works best to not let anyone see my first drafts; the idea is still too new and critiques stifle my creative soul at this stage. Sometimes I won't let anyone read my second drafts either. I usually wait to send a piece out for critiques until I've rewritten and edited a draft to the best of my abilities. And then I send it out and ask: Is this working? This has been the best method for me so far.Valerie Gearyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17165554338889917253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-19635737368538555422011-10-20T10:29:46.071-04:002011-10-20T10:29:46.071-04:00I'm learning to hold on to my work instead of ...I'm learning to hold on to my work instead of letting it go too early just to hear 'it's good, keep going' from others. I know my ego needs these strokes but feeding it regularly with judgements from others hurts my growing self-confidence in my own decisions in writing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-71174824410842003392011-10-20T08:08:31.513-04:002011-10-20T08:08:31.513-04:00When I drafted my first novel, I exchanged chapter...When I drafted my first novel, I exchanged chapters with a writing partner and now, looking back, I realize that was not the best method for me. I second guessed myself too much at a point in the project where I needed the freedom to roam into exit-less rooms and down bottomless stairways. I got lost and subsequently, shelved the project. I'm getting attempt #2 underway, and this time my first draft will be for my eyes only. Hopefully, the results will be better!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01899768909313326172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-85129528138342991422011-10-19T20:34:24.156-04:002011-10-19T20:34:24.156-04:00I let my first draft go out to betas and CPs (usua...I let my first draft go out to betas and CPs (usually 2 each) and then do a big revision based on pooled feedback. After that, I have a detailed crit by one or at most, two more people.Lydia Kanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00484415427764822386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-64953163147102149812011-10-19T19:47:45.436-04:002011-10-19T19:47:45.436-04:00I don't let anyone see my work until after the...I don't let anyone see my work until after the 2nd or 3rd pass. <br /><br />I hope this finds you well. :)<br /><br />Hugs,<br />LolaLola Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14394765053485642935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-84347465114286263062011-10-19T19:00:04.063-04:002011-10-19T19:00:04.063-04:00I won't let anyone see my work until it's ...I won't let anyone see my work until it's gone through several drafts. My CP will get it first in chunks. After that, the ms goes through waves of beta readers until I'm happy with the outcome.Stinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11415189347501942340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-19014991321479399692011-10-19T14:31:44.930-04:002011-10-19T14:31:44.930-04:00VERY interesting. Great point about the tangents y...VERY interesting. Great point about the tangents you may never discover if you show your work too soon! That's one reason I don't like sharing mine until I have written "The End" at the completion of my first draft. I may share the first chapter with a CP to get feedback on whether I've started out compellingly enough, but then the wheel is mine. Too much feedback can be a muddy thing. I think it's crucial for my growth as a writer to be able to figure out things for myself initially. :)Carol Riggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14092209912983783974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-68152841782742052422011-10-19T14:30:31.900-04:002011-10-19T14:30:31.900-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Carol Riggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14092209912983783974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-30335017187652957622011-10-19T12:48:13.713-04:002011-10-19T12:48:13.713-04:00Michelle: Thanks for the encouragement. I bet ther...Michelle: Thanks for the encouragement. I bet there are plenty of other edit-as-you-go folks like us who are afraid to admit they feel happier producing work they went over and over while drafting. We can start our own club. :-DLaurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-61765125156961083492011-10-19T11:22:03.434-04:002011-10-19T11:22:03.434-04:00Laurel, I wrote this post a few weeks ago. Don'...Laurel, I wrote <a href="http://theinnocentflower.blogspot.com/2011/09/authors-stop-fighting-your-instincts.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a> a few weeks ago. Don't fight your instincts. Do what's right for YOU. After all, it's your writing, your books, your career, and there truly are no rules except the ones you make. :)Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-9172069411026415632011-10-19T11:15:21.976-04:002011-10-19T11:15:21.976-04:00Michelle: It's funny that I keep hearing "...Michelle: It's funny that I keep hearing "edit as you go" is the chief of all big mistakes, and yet it feels natural to me, and sounds like for you also. Perhaps it's like the outline vs. seat of your pants debate that goes on endlessly. No one method works for every temperament.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-11574693743177349202011-10-19T11:10:45.350-04:002011-10-19T11:10:45.350-04:00Jessica: Knowing eyes will be on early material te...Jessica: Knowing eyes will be on early material tends to cramp me up. I need to either stop the alpha reading or let my sloppy stutterings be seen.<br /><br />Heidi: I think my professional training as an editor has instilled some negative things--like hyper-awareness of my own capacity for self-deception (I think it's good, so therefore it must be crap) so that only an outside voice can validate the quality in any meaningful way. Having the right balance of confidence and humility seems like a very lofty goal that I'm not sure how to reach.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-23569826973107389872011-10-19T10:59:32.402-04:002011-10-19T10:59:32.402-04:00Emy: Absolutely--crits are most helpful once you h...Emy: Absolutely--crits are most helpful once you have the whole story arc worked out, then you know what should stay and what should go.<br /><br />Laura: The "roughs" I let my alphas see are usually not very rough, and that, I think, is the problem. I edit as I go and prettify rooms that are still under construction, so to speak.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-63270542628445603052011-10-19T10:59:31.375-04:002011-10-19T10:59:31.375-04:00Laurel, no, they don't. Unless they point out ...Laurel, no, they don't. Unless they point out something HUGE I totally missed, which does happen occasionally. The thing is I edit as I go anyway. It's just how I write.Michelle D. Argylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696465137285587646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-84478496320315826372011-10-19T10:55:40.196-04:002011-10-19T10:55:40.196-04:00Jenn: I do think the alpha reader method has the m...Jenn: I do think the alpha reader method has the main drawback of making me want to edit as I go instead of drafting fast and free. It's a habit I don't think I'll be able to shed easily tho. Maybe NaNo therapy would help. :-D<br /><br />Michelle: Do you find that alphas make you edit as your draft? I do, and it is the main thing blocking my productivity, I think.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-66779925945750076502011-10-19T10:49:28.598-04:002011-10-19T10:49:28.598-04:00Janet: I think what's hardest is the lonelines...Janet: I think what's hardest is the loneliness of the process at times. But when I was most prolific (teen years) I was far better at closed door.<br /><br />Anne: Your process might help cure me of the "edit as you go" problem I struggle with.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-43130448586238234062011-10-19T10:46:09.962-04:002011-10-19T10:46:09.962-04:00Faith: It IS a tricky balance. I have a really har...Faith: It IS a tricky balance. I have a really hard time writing the first draft with the door closed--letting no one see anything. I tend to edit as I write instead so I can show chapters to my alphas. I this might be the main thing that slows me down too much. <br /><br />Terri: later rather than sooner is a good way to avoid burning out readers, for sure.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-57260689842185374932011-10-19T09:52:14.964-04:002011-10-19T09:52:14.964-04:00This is a great post, and so true! Early in my wri...This is a great post, and so true! Early in my writing life I needed that immediate feedback too. Accountability for one, and also the encouragement to keep going. Now I rarely share stuff until I think it's as good as I can get on my own.<br /><br />It's most helpful, early on, if I have a specific question. I'll send a few pages and say, "Is this voice working?" or "Does this scene feel realistic?" so that my CP only need to read for one thing. It's fast for them, and I don't get distracted by all the other things they saw that I wasn't in need of knowing yet.Heidi Willishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18420802651029097379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-87481480882721043002011-10-19T07:34:10.521-04:002011-10-19T07:34:10.521-04:00I used to give out first drafts but I soon learned...I used to give out first drafts but I soon learned it was not useful to me at all. Second drafts from now on at the EARLIEST.Jessica Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10889900730906728317noreply@blogger.com