tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post7940550884706988921..comments2023-10-30T08:00:54.059-04:00Comments on Laurel's Leaves: Where have all the adults gone?Laurel Garverhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-70671385027601372302010-02-03T22:50:52.239-05:002010-02-03T22:50:52.239-05:00Wow! Great things to think about. I really belie...Wow! Great things to think about. I really believed that we're supposed to "kill the mothers" so to speak. Get them out of the way so the kids can have their own adventures. How will they have adventures if mom rushes in, says no, and wisks them off to soccer practice?<br /><br />I'm writing YA historical. Back in the 40's kids were much more on their own. It's really the main plot of the story, but that doesn't mean all adults are dead or dumb. I'll keep that in mind as the plot thickens.Mary Aalgaardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051735579638637382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-82979814809900092462010-01-30T11:26:20.426-05:002010-01-30T11:26:20.426-05:00Tyrean: thanks for stopping by to comment. The abs...Tyrean: thanks for stopping by to comment. The absent adults cliche is something I hope writers will rethink. Kids raised by involved parents will have different challenges than kids raised very hands-off. <br /><br />Good luck with the independent missions. Remember the goal of parenting: to built a well-adjusted, confident adult. You can do it!Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-60340349106538488942010-01-29T15:10:45.041-05:002010-01-29T15:10:45.041-05:00Great topic, and thank you for noticing that! I t...Great topic, and thank you for noticing that! I thought I was the only one, since I read YA while my kids are in the kid section of the library. Actually, I would read it even if they weren't there, but it gives me an excuse other than research. <br /><br />I didn't really realize that the Harry Potter series includes some great adult mentors, and now that I think about it, I have to agree that this may be the reason that those books are so popular.<br /><br />Most of us heli-copter parents hope for great role models for our kids, and hope that when we aren't there, that some caring adult will be a healthy role model for our kids. <br /><br />I am totally guilty of the heli-copter parenting problem as a homeschooler, but I hope my kids don't call me the second they get out of their college classes. <br /><br />I had some semi heli-copter parents as a Gen-Xer, and they had to purposely send me on some "independent" missions, and I am trying to do the same with my kids. <br /><br />My oldest at 10 is heading out to shop for herself by herself this afternoon . . . I'll be outside biting my nails.Tyrean Martinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15356604721537744361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-26684496875781065862010-01-29T10:26:09.520-05:002010-01-29T10:26:09.520-05:00GWOE: Glad it was useful. I think you're the f...GWOE: Glad it was useful. I think you're the first to get my drift about not reading our own growing up experiences as normative, but observing from real life today. <br /><br />Hooray for cross-generational relationships, especially with grandparent figures. They're often even less visible in YA (more common in MG).Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-72158563984172651792010-01-29T09:45:21.195-05:002010-01-29T09:45:21.195-05:00Laurel I think you figured it out. Us GenX writer...Laurel I think you figured it out. Us GenX writers are writing teen books now from what we remember way back when. I think your post brings up a very valid point. The adults in my book are strong concerned parents, when I put them in a scene, but I don't have them in many scenes. Now I'm thinking of a piece at the end of my book where she gets advice from her grandmother and the grandmother directs her to someone else. I think I am going to maybe have her grandmother help her more. Actually, I kind of like that thought/change to my WIP. Thanks for posting this.Dana Elmendorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07130309062939542854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-48581509193761177162010-01-29T08:50:03.391-05:002010-01-29T08:50:03.391-05:00Jen: Your Charlie Brown example is interesting, be...Jen: Your Charlie Brown example is interesting, because I see literature for younger kids as serving a different purpose than that for teens. Teens are on the cusp of adulthood and are beginning to figure out the kind of adult they want to be and how to navigate the adult world. Seems to me they are going to have to at least occasionally interact with adults for that process to happen organically. If they're only ever with peers, they stay in a child world, it seems to me.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-23680342064733441652010-01-29T08:46:33.361-05:002010-01-29T08:46:33.361-05:00Kelly: Hooray for balance. I agree. Some parental ...Kelly: Hooray for balance. I agree. Some parental appearance seems necessary. When the level of parent involvement is nil, that raises questions of verisimiltude for me.<br /><br />Frankie: The organic quality is a great measure. The whole absent parent question came up for me in seeing a pattern that was starting to look more like a contrivance and a cliche. I think some direct conflict WITH parents could add something to a genre that's been overly peer focused too long.<br /><br />Thanks tons for your link. I think I'll use it as a jumping-off point for a future post.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-57290798525472633712010-01-29T08:39:26.438-05:002010-01-29T08:39:26.438-05:00Simon: know thy audience, right? As writers we hav...Simon: know thy audience, right? As writers we have to be careful observers and not lazily read our own experiences as normative for everyone.<br /><br />It's taken me a while to put my finger on what's different about my youth group kids and me at the same age. The parenting. My parents were shoving me out of the nest early and expeced me to stand on my own two feet young, while these kids' parents are more... nurturing, hand-holding, gentle.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-59774264871137693212010-01-28T23:58:17.962-05:002010-01-28T23:58:17.962-05:00Laurel--so true! And it made Harry's losses a...Laurel--so true! And it made Harry's losses all the more heartbreaking. Growing to love and trust Sirius, Dumbledore, Lupin, Mad Eye. Then losing them. <br /><br />Perhaps that JK knew what she was doing after all. ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13380826220166366026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-26276493465865405492010-01-28T22:14:47.217-05:002010-01-28T22:14:47.217-05:00I feel unqualified to comment, but found the topic...I feel unqualified to comment, but found the topic very interesting. I blog about Generation X and my blog's title is from YA - Judy Blume - Are you there God? It's me, generation X. Like I said - I'm just not that dialed in to YA - but I like the notion of more cross-generational stuff. I think of Charlie Brown - absent adults. So much like our childhoods.Jennifer Chronicles (jenx67.com)https://www.blogger.com/profile/14420405638287265650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-56581227257293073972010-01-28T21:35:20.974-05:002010-01-28T21:35:20.974-05:00This is such an interesting topic. I think a lot o...This is such an interesting topic. I think a lot of authors tends to shove the parents away on purpose so the MC can do things and make choices. I dont care if the parents are there or not as long as whatever the situation is it feels organic and believable but I need the MC to make their own choices and do things on their own even though parents would normally help in real life but you know...when parents step in and do most of the work it annoys me. I wrote a post on parents in YA lit a little while back that I think yu might enjoy.<br /><br />http://www.firstnovelsclub.com/2009/11/oh-parents-where-art-thou-parental.htmlFrankie Diane Mallishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06066659801542129040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-89892782970567053822010-01-28T17:44:56.357-05:002010-01-28T17:44:56.357-05:00Great post. This is something I've been thinki...Great post. This is something I've been thinking about in my WIP and with my MCs Mom. I agree that too many YA novels have absent parents. In a way, I wonder if it is written that way so the MC can be seen as strong and doing things on their own. But, you're right- that's not reality. I recently read a series where I wanted to yell at the adults in the novel because they were too absent and the MC felt as though she couldn't have gone to them, when in fact, she could. I think it's about balance, in both fiction and real life.Kelly Lymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14773120663217816189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-58327227322991017022010-01-28T16:43:17.775-05:002010-01-28T16:43:17.775-05:00I can't speak to a trend in YA lit, but you ce...I can't speak to a trend in YA lit, but you certainly did make me think! I suppose it never crossed my mind to even consider that teens today aren't the violently-independent type I was and grew up with. Huh. That, good lady, is a very good point, and one I shall have to consider when... uh... I write my YA novel. Or not.<br /><br />Still a great post, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-56116190661288952632010-01-28T16:19:46.798-05:002010-01-28T16:19:46.798-05:00Sherrie: You and Shannon have me intrigued with th...Sherrie: You and Shannon have me intrigued with the Percy Jackson books. I don't read much MG, but I will have to check these out.<br /><br />Elle: Absolutely. I think it's a misconception that's generational. It's older adults who get twitchy that I have more adults than kids in my book. The teens I've had look at the ms. like that aspect. They find conflicts with only peers rather tiresome.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-32412553682305752702010-01-28T16:05:23.212-05:002010-01-28T16:05:23.212-05:00Karen: Harry grows a lot in that area, doesn't...Karen: Harry grows a lot in that area, doesn't he? Adults have harmed him, he distrusts them. The psychology makes sense. Over time he moves toward adults, learns to lean on them and incorporate their values. In the end, he's able to stand up as self-sacrificing and heroic because he was willing to learn from parent figures like Dumbledore.<br /><br />As I'd said to Melissa 2, angelic parents aren't necessarily what I'm arguing for. Conflicts within families are interesting and worth exploring. Dealing with a helicopter parent has a lot of dramatic potential, I think.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-55884136542454558642010-01-28T16:01:08.151-05:002010-01-28T16:01:08.151-05:00Great topic, Laurel. I wonder if writers are afrai...Great topic, Laurel. I wonder if writers are afraid to bring too many adults into the picture because they might bore the teen reader. I don't think that's true, because good writing will snag any reader, but I think it's a mis-conception.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09687047513163296827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-17019348415030391072010-01-28T15:57:09.194-05:002010-01-28T15:57:09.194-05:00Melissa: love, love, love the Tolstoy quote. I'...Melissa: love, love, love the Tolstoy quote. I'm not arguing for angelic parents, but present parents. That they appear somewhere in the story and interact with the kids. I think there's excellent conflict to be milked with a generation of clinging parents and kids who need to grow up and into their identities as the world-changing people God is gifting them to be. <br /><br />Kids today would groove with more stories of conflict WITH parents, I think.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-70675087931220067022010-01-28T15:49:07.774-05:002010-01-28T15:49:07.774-05:00Carol: I wonder if as a plot device it's so co...Carol: I wonder if as a plot device it's so contrived that Gen-Y really doesn't buy it. <br /><br />Your insights into British teen life is interesting. My parents gave me a lot of freedom (access to a car, no curfew), but they also expected plenty in terms of responsibility and maturity. I was cooking meals and doing the whole family's laundry at 11, for example, and started working to earn college money at 14. Freedom was earned as a reward for being trustworthy. But then, my parents are really old school (Mom turns 82 this year--I was a late in life kid).Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-48393229956005131012010-01-28T15:28:00.525-05:002010-01-28T15:28:00.525-05:00Elena: I'm all for kids taking steps toward ma...Elena: I'm all for kids taking steps toward maturity, striving to solve their own problems. I just question how to do that realistically. Individuation for overparented kids is actually a huge leap and potentially very dramatic.Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-88940547232053364482010-01-28T15:23:27.212-05:002010-01-28T15:23:27.212-05:00Shannon: glad to hear that some writers have found...Shannon: glad to hear that some writers have found a way to keep adults in the picture.<br /><br />Melissa: I get the impulse to have the kids driving the plot, I just wonder if we end up missing realistic sources of conflict by removing the adults, or having them, as you describe, being "bumbling idiots".Laurel Garverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03657218435228802535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-60258033979304109972010-01-28T14:32:44.959-05:002010-01-28T14:32:44.959-05:00I think one of the things I really like in the Per...I think one of the things I really like in the Percy Jackson series is that he and his mom have a great relationship. I mean, he goes off and has these adventures without her, but she isn't one of those neglectful ignorant parents.Sherrie Petersenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11670339498152684137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-47320407616221393472010-01-28T14:28:15.588-05:002010-01-28T14:28:15.588-05:00It's interesting that you brought up Harry Pot...It's interesting that you brought up Harry Potter because this was actually one of the major issues I had with the first two books, the lack of trust Harry displays towards adults. Granted, his sole relationships with adults prior to arriving at Hogwarts were with Uncle Vernon and Aunt Petunia.<br /><br />I do agree with Melissa, though, about the need for conflict. Loving, supportive parents may be the norm for most kids, but it doesn't necessarily make for an engaging plot. I tried to make the parents flawed but caring in my WIP.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13380826220166366026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-32640974668739261642010-01-28T13:58:00.540-05:002010-01-28T13:58:00.540-05:00For the most part I think it comes down to the nee...For the most part I think it comes down to the need for conflict. And I don't think it's just for YA. Most adult novels I read also have absent or difficult parents. To quote Tolstoy (wow! I sound like a total snob! lol)<br />"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way". <br />In my mind, it just makes for more interesting drama...<br />That being said, I feel like a lot of the YA books I read have 1 adult that the protaganist trusts. A teacher, a neighbor, a friend's parent, etc. I've also read a lot of books where they do trust and love a parent, but that parent is somehow absent or unavailable at that time, again just adding to the need for conflict...<br />I think if someone has really awesome adult/child relationships throughout an entire story, a lot of other MAJOR stuff has to be going down to keep the story full of conflict.Melissa Sarnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11215683401795724259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-85300718635951830872010-01-28T13:55:29.196-05:002010-01-28T13:55:29.196-05:00I was just about to write what Melissa wrote. I th...I was just about to write what Melissa wrote. I think often the absence of adults (or the presence of a neglectful one) in YA literature may be intentional--a plot device, really. J.K. rowling handled this rather brilliantly in that her teens are immersed in a magical world where there is more leeway for teens (indeed, they are able to get away with much more--they're expected to battle against dark magic, and this adult burden sort of seems to open the door to other adult-like behaviors and expectations); so adults can more easily be incorporated in the plot without hindering it. <br /><br />But I would like to point out, too, that (in my experience) in the UK, teens are expected to be more responsible and treated more like adults at a much younger age. The world of the pub is open to them throughout their lives; they can drink at 18; most begin walking/traveling to school on their own in the grammar school years; they enter high school at 11; they graduate from high school at 16, etc. The British teen is not coddled, in many respects, like the American counterpart. Perhaps this is an overgeneralization, but I think we might see a stronger presence of adults in British YA lit because their presence does not necessarily hamper the activities of the adolescent protagonist (who is freer to come and go as he pleases, freer to act without the hovering presence of overbearing adults). This is not to say that British parents don't care about their children, but it seems there are greater expectations placed upon the British teen--though he may be given greater freedom to act, he is also given more leeway to make mistakes and face the consequences. But this is just based on my own experiences having had an (almost) adolescent child in the UK...I could be way off base.<br /><br />What a great topic, Laurel. It's certainly something I've wondered myself.Carolina M. Valdez Schneiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11589934533051907801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263988256560129564.post-36829106612084786562010-01-28T13:51:42.216-05:002010-01-28T13:51:42.216-05:00I agree with Tess. It's hard to have the chara...I agree with Tess. It's hard to have the character grow and change, solve their own problems, if there's a responsible, caring adult always there. I think it's one of the hurdles in MG and YA, we hear all the time about how we have to get the kids away from the parents. <br /><br />I agree that it would be okay to have "normal" caring parents in a YA book.Elana Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05877856005992028912noreply@blogger.com